On February 24, 2022, Russia’s preeminent dictator Vladimir Putin launched his invasion on Ukraine, declaring it as a necessary step to the “demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine,” whatever that’s supposed to mean. He claimed that this operation didn’t include occupying Ukrainian territories. That they weren’t going to impose anything on anyone by force. That they would not infringe on the rights of Ukraine and its people.
He said all of this while shelling residential neighborhoods, carrying out attacks on innocent civilians, bombing hospitals, and killing children and their families. Once again, Putin proves that his actions are what you should listen to most — not his lies.
While this operation was carried out, photojournalist and war correspondent Mystyslav Chernov was on the front lines, covering the siege for the Associated Press. The footage that was not used in AP’s reporting, he edited into a 94-minute documentary called 20 Days In Mariupol, which is nominated for Best Documentary at the 96th Academy Awards.
I recently had the privilege of sitting down with Mystyslav to ask him about his experiences filming that conflict up close, but before I did, I wanted to watch the movie myself to ensure that I was well-prepared to discuss the topic at hand.
My viewing experience was nothing short of horrifying. When watching other movies about real-life conflicts, whether it’s 1917, All Quiet On The Western Front, or Oppenheimer, it’s helpful to know that what you’re watching on screen isn’t real. Yes, someone died at some point and someone lived through indescribable suffering, but the people you’re watching on the screen are not those people. At the end of the day, they get to clock out of work, they get to go home, and they get to live their happy lives, hopefully with a family who loves and values them.
The people I watched in 20 Days In Mariupol did not have that privilege. Despite what Russia’s propaganda may have you believe, there were no actors involved in this conflict. There were no set extras, body doubles, or special effects. When you watch someone die, they died. When a father grieves for his dead son, it’s real. When a hospital is overwhelmed with citizens whose limbs have been blown off, it’s real. When a mother wails for her dead infant, it’s real. And when the bodies of both children and adults fill mass graves until it’s overflowing, it’s real.
In many ways, the carnage and cruelty in Ukraine mirrors that in Gaza right now. And just like Ukraine, people don’t seem to care what happens to the innocents who live there.
It’s hard to pin down the exact number of casualties Ukraine suffered from the ongoing conflict, but it likely exceeds 20,000 people. Imagine a small city wiped off of the face of the Earth in a heartbeat. That’s what Mystyslav witnessed during the fall of Mariupol.
Before I go into our conversation, I would like to encourage all of my readers to watch 20 Days In Mariupol as soon as they can either on PBS Frontline or YouTube. After that, I encourage you to support Ukrainian relief efforts however you can. The Ukrainian Red Cross actually helped Mystyslav and his team escape from Mariupol at the end of the film, so they’re at least one initiative I strongly recommend. There’s also Future For Ukraine, Razom, Nova Ukraine, as well as the GlobalGiving Ukraine Crisis Relief Fund. There are plenty of opportunities to help those who are suffering in Ukraine. Even $1 can go a long way for those drowning in a sea of sorrow.
As we begin, know that this is probably one of the most important interviews I’ve ever conducted. That’s because this isn’t covering the movies — it’s covering life. Specifically the life of Ukraine and her people — including Mstyslav Chernov.
David Dunn: Your film opens on such a haunting line: “Wars don’t start with explosions — they start with silence.” As you were driving through the streets of Mariupol on the eve of the invasion, what was that silence saying to you?
Mstyslav Chernov: This war has lasted for me and all Ukrainians for 10 years. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2013, so all these 10 years, we’ve heard explosions on the front lines. We tried to cover it and keep telling the story of this invasion to the world, and the world didn’t always pay attention to that because there were so many other important events happening in Syria, Iraq, and Europe. But the front line was always active. There was always fighting.
But that night before, it was completely silent as we drove along the front line. It was so unusually quiet. It felt like the calm before the storm. As the world looked away from what was happening, nobody really believed that the war was about to start. Nobody really wanted to believe that tomorrow, our world would be shattered and changed forever.
Even when the bombs started to fall, there were moments of dire attempts to keep their humanity and hope that there was still a chance that our world would not fall apart. That silence was also striking. The fact that people clung to their humanity until the very, very last moment when the bombs already hit the residential areas in Mariupol. That is another kind of silence that was there not only for the people of Mariupol, but probably for the whole world. They didn’t really want to believe that Russia did attack Ukraine openly this time — that they did probably start the third world war.
The more I travel and talk to people in the U.S., the more I realize that this belief that the world hasn’t changed and can stay the way we remember it is an attempt to keep silence around us. Not everyone probably realizes the gravity of what has already started, as the people of Mariupol did not realize that until the bombs started to hit their houses. Russia is already at war with NATO. Russia has already been openly stating that to their own military, their own people, and their media for over a year. The west doesn’t seem to completely realize the gravity of that fact — that Russia is already at war with them.
DD: So it’s more than just bringing attention to what’s going on in Ukraine — you also want to bring attention to how grave of a threat Russia really is?
MC: How grave the situation is. For many people, it still seems like this concerns only Ukraine. That this is a local conflict that has no influence on the U.S. or other parts of the world. But this and the victory of Russia on the battlefield will have huge implications around the world — in other regions where other countries are waiting for their opportunity to invade their neighbors. This will signal that they can do that and nobody will stop them. It will have huge implications on U.S. security because of the U.S. presence in those regions. It will have huge implications on the economy of the entire world. It may ultimately result in direct confrontation between Russia and NATO, as many generals are saying right now in Europe and the U.S.
DD: Your film has been getting a lot of recognition on the awards circuit. You’ve obviously won the BAFTA, you’ve won the DGA, and you’re nominated for Best Documentary at the Academy Awards. What change do you hope comes from all of this attention your film is getting, and by extension, the ongoing conflict between Ukraine and Russia?
MC: Well, it would be naive of me to think that the film could change international policy — that it can change the course of the war. I actually address that thought in the film itself. When Vladimir the police officer tells us this is going to change the course of the war — the images of the bombing of the maternity hospital — I do express my doubts about that. I do extend my doubts to the film as well, although I feel that cinema is a much more impactful medium. It has a stronger appeal and stronger impact on audiences. The more recognition this film gets, the more audiences will see that. That’s actually my main hope, for more people to see it.
Addressing the hope for change, I would rather express my doubt about that because it takes much more than one film or 10 films or any kind of reporting to actually change international policy. I think there should be much more effort to really change the course of the war efforts from politicians, from countries, from civil societies, which will someday probably realize that it’s not only about Ukraine, but it’s also about the security of their own countries. That’s probably what I hope this film will ultimately bring.
It’s not a political issue, and it’s not a bargaining chip for political arguments. It is an urgent humanitarian catastrophe. People are dying every day. They need to be helped because that’s what we as humans do. If someone is being attacked in the street by a criminal, we call the police, we intervene, or we try to stop the crime. It’s quite the natural thing to do for modern society. For the people who see the film, I hope they look at Ukraine again not as a political topic, but as a humanitarian catastrophe.
There are approximately 14,000 graves right now on the outskirts of Mariupol. That means there are at least 14,000 people who have been killed just in that siege — not only by the bombs, but by the conditions that were created by the lack of food and medicine. We do hope that this tragedy will be recognized and reacted upon in a way — or taken seriously, at least.
DD: This documentary was incredibly hard to watch, which is why I imagine it was even harder to film. I think of the line in the movie where you say “My brain will desperately want to forget all of this, but the camera will not let it happen.” How did you keep filming despite all of the horror you were witnessing? What kept you going through it all?
MC: In the moment, you’re only thinking about two things — how do I not die, and how do I even go on after this? You’re also thinking about your shutter speeds, how much battery you have left on the camera, how many minutes are on these cards. This is all happening at the same time in your head. Very often, you’re so scared that you don’t want to do what you do.
But then you look at the people around you — the people who are burying people, who are burying children and adults in mass graves in the city center of Mariupol. They were still doing that, even while the bombs were falling nearby. The day before that, that nearby cemetery was hit by a shell, and those people still do their work, just like the firefighters without water or the doctors without medicine. When you look at all of those people and you look at how strong the community is, that’s what keeps you going. You feel like part of the community and you just realize you need to do your part.
Of course, it sometimes feels like that’s not enough. You can’t really stop a bullet with a camera. You can’t really protect anyone. But people kept telling us, “You have to keep filming. You have to make sure that the world knows about what’s happening in Mariupol.” They wanted to be heard, and that alone was a huge motivation for me, because we were the only ones who could give them that voice.
DD: One of the most sickening, disheartening moments of the film was watching how Russia tried to delegitimize your reporting through mass disinformation campaigns. What did you feel when your editors told you what was happening outside of Mariupol?
MC: As a journalist, I wasn’t surprised, because I went through that before in 2014 when Russia shot down the MH17 Boeing going over Donetsk Oblast by Hrabove. There was such a storm of misinformation and misinterpretation and distortions, and that showed me that the most important events are immediately followed by a misinformation campaign — fake news and propaganda.
I was not surprised when it happened after the Mariupol maternity hospital bombing, because it was already happening before that. Some Russian bloggers were saying that the woman who died was just an actor, or it was staged scenes. I was prepared for that, and it’s actually a good indicator of the importance of the work. If it evokes a strong response of propaganda, it means that the work and this story is making an impact.
But my heart bleeds for the people who lost their families — who lost everything. Apart from the fact they lost everything, they are also being told that this is all fake. Even their pain is denied and questioned. I know how painful and devastating it is for the residents of Mariupol.
DD: Do you see 20 Days In Mariupol as a way of legitimizing and restoring truth to their pain?
MC: Yeah, that’s probably the main motivation behind what I did in Mariupol and also what I did when we started making the film. We wanted to make sure that this story is not forgotten and that they will have a way to express their tragedy and prove that this really happened. It’s at least a way to save their memory — those children, those thousands who were murdered. It would be a monument to those who died.
– David Dunn
DAVID DUNN 